IRC log of ws-cg on 2002-04-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

[em]
agenda+ role
agenda+ action items
agenda+ xmlcg report
agenda+ questions on working group reports
agenda+ f2f discusion
agenda+ udpate on oasis
agenda+ xmlp rechartering
agenda+ rdfcore eyes on xml protocol last call
[hugo]
Zakim, agenda?
[Zakim]
I see 8 items on the agenda:
1. role [from em]
2. action items [from em]
3. xmlcg report [from em]
4. questions on working group reports [from em]
5. f2f discusion [from em]
6. udpate on oasis [from em]
7. xmlp rechartering [from em]
8. rdfcore eyes on xml protocol last call [from em]
[hugo]
Zakim, who is here?
[Zakim]
I see EricM, Hugo, Jonathan, DavidF
[hugo]
-----
[em]
chris? are you here?
[DavidF]
chris - r u joining us?
[hugo]
2. action items [from em]
from last week's minutes: http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/cg/2/03/19-minutes.html
ACTION: Hugo: Calendar should have August reserved.
ACTION: Chris to check Sept dates in Washington with Arch Group.
both pending
Jonathan: week of the 9th and 16th are fine apparently
... need to hear from Chris
-----
3. xmlcg report [from em]
Chris absent
Short meeting; nothing to report
Don't know what happened last week
-----
4. questions on working group reports [from em]
Jonathan: what is the "Binary Lexical Octet Ad-hoc Transport" proposal: http://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc3252.txt
... from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-cg/2002Apr/0002.html
David: it's about the BLOAT protocol, and the name was chosen on purpose :)
-----
5. f2f discusion [from em]
Jonathan: June one is resolved: 10-14 June at L'Echangeur in Paris
ACTION: Hugo: Add June f2f dates in the calendar
Public version: http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/cg/2/03/pschedule
Jonathan: what about a December meeting?
Hugo: we have Ottawa with Cisco
[Jonathan]
s/Cisco/Nortel
[hugo]
Jonathan: waybe IBM in New-York, or Microsoft too
s/way/may/
... maybe before thanksgiving
David: no XMLP f2fs planned after June
... maybe we should put somehing as a placeholder
... some people now attend f2fs remotely; could plan for a day-long teleconference
Jonathan: 16th September is Yom Kippur, maybe plan for week of 23rd
[Jonathan]
Or 9th.
[hugo]
David: what is the overlap between our 3 Groups?
Jonathan: maybe not that high, especially because some people act as alternates
David: I will think about the dates for XMLP; when will you nail down the dates?
Jonathan: waiting for Chris; if I don't hear from him, will choose a date
-----
6. udpate on oasis [from em]
[DavidF]
w3m has rec that OASIS co-ordination best done at WG level
rather than on WS CG (OASIS had asked to have a rep on the WS CG)
JM: might set a precedent, then you could ask what about WSI, Grid groups etc
[hugo]
... CG might get out of hands.
Hugo: technical coordination at WG level is the best for now
... don't think that CG coordination is going to be benefitial to us or OASIS for now; participation in Web Services Architecture Working Group will be best
... suggestion: go with WG-level coordination and see how it goes.
All: agreed.
-----
7. xmlp rechartering [from em]
[DavidF]
w3m postponed decision on xmlp recharter until ??
expect w3m/w3t to discuss on friday
and xmlp should know by the end of next week
[hugo]
Hugo: expect W3T to have something to report by end of text week
David: typically, charter geos 6 months after Rec: errata work, etc
... is there a precedent for not doing that?
Hugo: not aware of any
... may take a break
David: that is what MSM advised
... other question: what next?
... scenario for new WG:
... 1. errata
... 2. extensions
Jonathan: XML Core is like that: started as doing errata, now doing XInclude, etc
... people know each other
... however, you end up dealing with small project; difficult to get the community involved
David: could have an XMLP Core WG, with small number of core extensions to work on
Jonathan: Linking's maintenance is likely to go to XML Core
[em]
:)
[hugo]
... XMLP Core could maintain erratas for others
David: good discussion about how to do errata
... should keep noodling on it
-----
8. rdfcore eyes on xml protocol last call [from em]
Eric: I am hoping that the last message I sent is enough
... URL to be pasted
... is my interpretation of i29 accurate?
[DavidF]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-xml-protocol-wg/2002Mar/0190.html
[em]
http://www.w3.org/2000/xp/Group/xmlp-issues.html#x29
[hugo]
... one interpretation: RDF inclusion in SOAP Body
... is syntactic inclusion enough?
David: Went back and forth with RDF and XMI people about i29
... asked: tell us if it is not possible for a SOAP Body to contain a serialization of your data model?
[chris]
oops! did I miss the call?
[hugo]
... Eric said in his email that RDF has an XML serialization, that could be included in the SOAP body
[chris]
forgot all about it (because it isn't in my palm!)
[Jonathan]
Chris, we're still on - though expect to finish shortly...
[hugo]
... other issue: would like the SOAP encoding to be a serialization for RDF
Eric: we have 2 WGs working on similar things
... SOAP data model is of great interest to RDF community
... issue 29 seems to be syntacting inclusion
... other issue: is it cost-effective to converge on that?
David: maybe we need to get XMLP and SW together
... maybe involve XMI folks too
... XMI people said that the SOAP encoding was a good candidate for XMI 2
... if that was the same for RDF, it would be a major win
David: need to identify all the issues
[em]
UML and RDF - > http://www.w3.org/RDF/#related
[hugo]
... can SOAP-ENC be used for UML and RDF?
... what is the data model?
... SOAP-ENC is optional
Eric: what does that mean in our context?
... are both parts going to last call soon?
David: yes
David: data model is stable
[DavidF]
http://www.w3.org/2000/xp/Group/
http://www.w3.org/2000/xp/Group/1/10/11/soap12-part2.html
[chris]
Chris: confirms data model is stable, has been for a while
[DavidF]
http://www.w3.org/2000/xp/Group/1/10/11/soap12-part2.html#datamodel
[chris]
Eric: so comments from RDF core are appreciated now rather than after last call?
David: yes
-- thinks that data model has been there for a while
Eric: but this is new from a WD perspective
David: yes
-- dec 17th WD contains empty section on SOAP Data Model
-- probably appeared in editors copy in Jan
Eric: likes to think of these as preventitive medicine
-- had we discussed this earlier, people working on one DLG model could
have had input for another group working on DLG model
David: from XMLP POV (discharging charter), we're not obliged to have a particular data model in our spec
-- does W3C believe that data model, as optional thing in one spec, what are ROE for that data model?
-- like to get some reading on that
ACTION: Eric to have RDF-core, WebOnt, and? review SOAP Data Model, determine initial assessment as to whether it is 2" or 2mi apart from their DLG model and channel that feedback through a single point of contact
ACTION: Eric to provide XMLP with name of that contact by Friday
David: ballpark estimate back by when?
Eric: matter of 1-2 weeks?
David: wants one response
Eric: order of 2 weeks then
David: Hugo, do we have to resolve this issue here before LC?
Hugo: doesn't think it is required
David: this isn't even on our charter
Hugo: if RDF-core raises specific issue and says we found this problem, then we can't go forward
-- doesn't think the current situation should prevent LC
Eric: if preferable, let's do it, if not...
-- don't want to slow process down
-- wants to make sure we have this quicker
David: so we'll have name by friday, and estimate in 2 weeks (from today?)
Eric: strive for 2 weeks from today, 2 weeks friday more likely though
David: Hugo, you going to clean up the log?
Hugo: yeah, have a script now
adjourned
[hugo]
RRSAgent, show action items
[RRSAgent]
I see 5 action items:
ACTION: Hugo: Calendar should have August reserved. [1]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/04/02-ws-cg-irc#T18-15-55
ACTION: Chris to check Sept dates in Washington with Arch Group. [2]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/04/02-ws-cg-irc#T18-16-22
ACTION: Hugo: Add June f2f dates in the calendar [3]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/04/02-ws-cg-irc#T18-23-58
ACTION: Eric to have RDF-core, WebOnt, and? review SOAP Data Model, determine initial assessment as to whether it is 2" or 2mi apart from their DLG model and channel that feedback through a single point of contact [4]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/04/02-ws-cg-irc#T19-28-48
ACTION: Eric to provide XMLP with name of that contact by Friday [5]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/04/02-ws-cg-irc#T19-29-10
[Zakim]
WS_WSCG()1:00PM has ended
[hugo]
Zakim, please excuse us
RRSAgent, please excuse us