Social Web Working Group Teleconference - 02 Sep 2014

Attendees

Present

Arnaud, deiu, +1.303.204.aaaa, jasnell, aaronpk, MarkCrawford, Sandro, rhiaro, ShaneHudson, wilkie, MattMarum, bblfish, tommorris, elf-pavlik, Tsyesika, tibor_katelbach, tantek, Dan_Romascanu, oshepherd, Doug_Schepers, Hhalpin

Regrets

Chair

Arnaud

Scribe

wilkie

Discussion

  <trackbot> Date: 02 September 2014

  <tommorris> ready to go, humans?

  <ShaneHudson> That was me

  Zakim: +1.412.370.aabb is me

  <deiu> There's always 41#

  <ShaneHudson> I think I'm 10 but Zakim didn't accept it

  <bblfish> what do you have to type?

  <MattMarum> +??P7 is me

  <deiu> bblfish: 41#

  <hhalpin> hey everyone, I am in border control at an airport
  due to flight delay so dialing in late

  <hhalpin> trackbot, start meeting

  <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference

  <trackbot> Date: 02 September 2014

  <bblfish> zakim IPcaller is me

  <tommorris> Zakim: IPcaller.a is me

  <bblfish> it really works :-)

  <hhalpin> quick note - if anyone is unclear of their invited
  expert status, just email me.

  <hhalpin> there was a systeam error when group was first set up
  so myself and chairs werent notified for a while.

  <deiu> sandro: your mic is terrible

  <ShaneHudson> Someone has a lot of feedback

  <tantek> ah, nothing like 60Hz in the morning

  <hhalpin> thus folks can easily slip through

  <tantek> who just joined?

  <tantek> nicely done oshepherd

  <jasnell> I'll volunteer for either next week or the week after

  <Arnaud> srcibe: wilkie

  <Arnaud> scribe: wilkie

  <tantek> reminder, when you speak, please say your name first,
  at least the first few times - it helps the scribe(s) a lot!

  <ShaneHudson> I will volunteer soon too, once I've got to grips
  with how it all works :)

  <deiu> scribenick: wilkie

  <tommorris> tantek +1

  <tommorris> works on wikipedia. ;-)

  <aaronpk> +1 for reducing bureaucracy

  tantek: have minutes copy/pasted on wiki to retain history;
  people will fix/maintain them

  <ShaneHudson> I agree that everything on the wiki will make it
  easier

  Arnaud: common scribe is a better tool for doing this. tell us
  of any better options.

  <hhalpin> I recommend Skype dial out over SIP in general

  proposed: scribe copy/paste minutes to social wg wiki

  <Arnaud> RESOLVED: scribe copy/paste minutes to social wg wiki

  resolved: scribe copy/paste minutes to social wg wiki

  <tommorris> +1

  <oshepherd> +1

  <hhalpin> you can make munutes text by adding ,text to end of
  URI

  <tantek> regrets for next week's meeting. I will be on a
  flight.

  <aaronpk> like this? http://www.w3.org/2014/08/26-social-minutes.html,text

  <bblfish> http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/

  <ShaneHudson> Regrets in advance, I will not be able to make it
  to TPAC

  <hhalpin> yes aaronpk

  Arnaud: you need to register for TPAC, face-to-face meeting

  <bblfish> tantek, which icon?

  <bblfish> ah yes, I was looking to see what it would look like.
  There is no link to that from the irc channel info...

  <bblfish> :-)

  Arnaud: we are scheduled (TPAC) to meet on 27-28 (October). the
  chairs will try to set up a schedule/agenda.

  <bblfish> ah yes...

  <hhalpin> notes that registering early saves on flight and
  hotel

  <MattMarum> MarkC was speaking

  Arnaud: it would be helpful to have a joint meeting with
  Social-IG

  <tibor_katelbach> I'm an observer

  <tibor_katelbach> I submitted request though

  <tibor_katelbach> wiating for validation

  <MarkC> given the large pool of folks involved in social in the
  bay area, we might need to have some control over the number of
  observers

  MarkC: social-IG will coordinate and come up with topics of
  interest to bring to social-wg for discussion/collaboration

  <tantek> MarkC, let's wait til it's a problem

  <ShaneHudson> Will the meetings have remote access for those of
  us that cannot make it?

  <jasnell> As far as TPAC agenda is concerned, it would be good
  to give an overview of the AS2 draft at that time. I can walk
  people through the spec.

  <jasnell> Also, it would be good to discuss the Actions
  proposal and how it relates to alternatives such as Hydra and
  schema.org/Actions

  <elf-pavlik> +1 jasnell

  tantek: consider topics that are difficult to discuss online
  (email, phone) to discuss in the face-to-face. such as UI and
  visual discussion.

  <MattMarum> OpenSocial is looking to organize a separate event
  around same time most likely at UCSF. Still in discussion.

  <elf-pavlik> +1 visual discussions!

  tantek: let's avoid things such as 'here is a powerpoint' which
  could be done just as well in email
  ... had some success with working groups with 'unconference' or
  'barcamp' type formats

  <MattMarum> +1 to running a bar camp / uncon style session.

  MarkC: agrees with tantek. james wants to do a walk-through of
  the specs. focus will be on the use-cases and how best to
  present those.

  <tibor_katelbach> maybe subjet proposals can be submitted in
  advance , to motivate interest

  <tantek> +1 to providing text summaries on the wiki *before*
  bringing up subjects in meetings

  Arnaud: we will set up a page for the face-to-face meeting and
  people can propose topics to discuss
  ... barcamp is good so that topics can be flexible, bad when
  schedules overlap

  <elf-pavlik> +1 email/wiki *before*

  Arnaud: last week we set up an agenda to separate sections of
  the AS specs into dedicated specs

  <bblfish> where was the discussion?

  <elf-pavlik> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/5

  jasnell: 'url' is ubiquitious and should be there, was not in
  AS1

  <oshepherd> 'url' WAS in AS1

  jasnell: some disagreement about 'id' vs 'uid'. discussion on
  github led to some reasonable compromise

  <oshepherd> (though a bit confused)

  <jasnell> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/5

  jasnell: people should read through the issue page on github
  and make comments either there or on the mailing list

  <Arnaud> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues

  <jasnell> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/10

  <jasnell> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/11

  jasnell: between as1 and as2 changes were made to how links
  were handled. as2 wants to have a more generalized view of
  links. is this appropriate or do we need media links.

  <oshepherd> The fundamental thing is are we defining just an
  interchange format or a data model

  <oshepherd> Merging media links and objects make use as a data
  model more complex

  <tantek> any guidance we can take from AS2 implementations?

  <oshepherd> I know from AS1 impls, Pump.io, Impeller, Hubub
  (the latter two are Pump.io related apps fwiw), Idno/Known(?)
  use AS1 as their internal data model

  jasnell: (acking tantek in irc) not sure we can take much from
  them yet

  <jasnell> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/12

  <elf-pavlik> also http://sockethub.org uses AS1

  <tantek> I heard that there are only 2 AS2 implementations that
  could be used to inform (prev issue) and that neither really
  helps in that regard.

  jasnell: (wrt issue #12) html5 and microformats have taken a
  looser take on link relations, rfc5988 is stricter, which do we
  point to? jasnell prefers stricter rfc5988.

  <tantek> jasnell - thought your strict intersection
  "compromise" made sense

  <tibor_katelbach> +1 microformats

  <tantek> good step forward

  <bblfish> yes, step backward on the higher picture seems a good
  idea to me.

  <oshepherd> I volunteer to raise data vs syntax model to
  mailing list?

  <tantek> and yes +1 for suggesting use of the microformats
  rel-registry (like HTML5) does

  jasnell: some of the larger issues (wrt AS spec) we should
  frame out and discuss (ie json-ld)

  <jasnell> oshepherd: +1

  <bblfish> we just saw that some of this needs to work on HTML5,
  it may need to work in JSON-LD, then also work on HTTP layer.

  MattMarum: when we looked at AS in the past, it was a data
  format that didn't specify much wrt how to retrieve the streams

  <jasnell> tantek: ok, I think it makes sense also so I think
  we're close on this one

  MattMarum: to me, we need to think about how these APIs work
  for getting AS and social business use-cases around these
  activities
  ... That's what the social api means to opensocial

  <oshepherd> I raised the question a while back as to whether
  embedded "widgets" and the "API" are the same spec

  tibor_katelbach: why was AS chosen compared to schema.org/Hydra

  <jasnell> I think we need to step back. The OpenSocial API
  approach works ok but is certainly not ideal by any stretch.

  <tantek> sounds like good FAQs

  <jasnell> that question can be answered as a FAQ, honestly

  <tantek> tibor_katelbach: anyone can bring alternative
  proposals to the group

  <tantek> right now, AS2 seems to have the most critical mass
  and active open editing / participation in this WG

  Arnaud: the WG has agreed to proceed with the publication of
  the spec. we can still choose to not go further with it beyond
  publication. reconsideration of previous decisions is valid.

  <tantek> jasnell, want to take this one as an FAQ to write-up?

  <oshepherd> I think tantek could give you some good reasons as
  to why not Schema.org :-)

  <jasnell> yes

  <tantek> thank you jasnell

  tibor_katelbach: I was using schema, and then found AS and
  found it quite complete. I have no problem with it, just
  wondering why

  <bblfish> yes, it's true the group only formally started
  meeting last week.

  <tantek> Arnaud, jasnell volunteered to write up FAQs for these
  questions.

  Arnaud: anybody wanting to do a comparison and present a
  recommendation can do so, but we have to keep a timeframe in
  mind

  <oshepherd> shepazu: the OpenSocial API submission link is in
  the charter

  <Arnaud> http://www.w3.org/Submission/2014/SUBM-osapi-20140314/

  <jasnell> Sorry, but IMHO, the OpenSocial API is a great
  example of a bad example to follow.

  shepazu: is there a link to a social API?

  <bblfish> thanks too.

  <tibor_katelbach> why jasnell ?

  <aaronpk> http://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub

  <jasnell> unfortunately too much to go into right now tibor...

  aaronpk: micropub builds on top of oauth for authentication.
  mirror-image of h-entry. uses form requests to make, for
  instance, status updates.

  <tibor_katelbach> :) I'd love to here those thought maybe we
  can catch up later ?

  <tibor_katelbach> hear

  aaronpk: micropub is a way to make social posts which people
  are currently using. half of a dozen implementations for
  creating posts, thousands of users

  <tantek> +1 to micropub as a building block for Social API

  <jasnell> as far as API is concerned, there are three key areas
  to address: Vocabulary, Actions and Federation. We're looking
  at Vocabulary and Actions already. There is overlap we need to
  look at with regards to various ontologies, including
  schema.org.

  <tantek> open spec and 10+ interoperable micropub
  implementations is a great start

  harry: while there is this opensocial spec submitted to w3c, is
  this the latest version?

  <tantek> jasnell, regarding overlap need to look is more like
  h-entry than schema.org (as far as API is concerned)

  who is speaking?

  <oshepherd> harry, or somebody else: Whats the procedure for
  bringing a proposal to the WG?

  <elf-pavlik> tantek, aaronpk: do you have micropub listed on
  wiki?

  <tantek> no one is using an API with schema vocab AFAIK. where
  as 10+ publishers / consumers are using micropub with h-entry
  and h-card

  <tantek> elf-pavlik: yes http://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub

  <elf-pavlik> socialWG wiki :)

  <tantek> thought so, let me check

  <jasnell> for Federation, we're largely talking about
  discoverability and distribution... which is a fancy way of
  saying GET and POST :-)

  <aaronpk> I can add the link to today's call

  <tantek> aaronpk, could you add micropub to this list? https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Related#IndieWebCamp

  ??: The specification is indeed based on the latest version

  <aaronpk> perfect thanks

  <harry> In the WG, you just ask the Working Group to adopt it
  as an Editors Draft

  <harry> and if the WG agrees, then we'll set you up a Respec.js
  and a space to edit in w3.org

  <oshepherd> harry: OK. I have a draft I made a few months back
  I'd like to clean up and propose. I guess I'd just mail in a
  link?

  <harry> Then if the WG moves forward with the spec, we can put
  in on what's called "Rec Track"

  <tantek> Arnaud, could you pick a chair for next week
  (Evanpro?) - I cannot make it - I will be on a flight.

  <harry> Yes, mail over mailing list, link to wiki, and we can
  discuss next call

  <elf-pavlik> +1 looking at LDP

  <harry> Make sure it's i scope though!

  <jasnell> I'll post a detailed note about the Embedded
  Experiences and Action Handlers evolutinon by next call

  <Loqi> harry meant to say: Make sure int's in scope though!

  <MattMarum> Latest currently released OpenSocial specification: http://opensocial.org/documentation/opensocial-2-5-1/

  bblfish: we have a bunch of apis, and I want to know how far
  one can one go building off of that and how many people would
  be interested in that

  Arnaud: that is something that would be good to discuss on the
  mailing list

  <tantek> propose EvanPro for chair for next week

  <harry> As regards whoever was bringing up schema.org, until
  recently schema.org was incompatible with W3C's patent policy

  <harry> so we didn't put that in the charter

  <tommorris> Since last week, Linked Data Platform now has a
  Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linked_Data_Platform

  <bblfish> wilkie: yes, and especially how it ties into with LDP https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/tip/ldp-primer/ldp-primer.html

  <harry> As regards Hydra, just point us to implementations and
  I'm sure folks can look at it.

  <tibor_katelbach> bblfish +1

  <harry> There's been lots of Semantic Web "ontologies" in this
  space, all with very little uptake but we understand that can
  change.

  Arnaud: we should gather our use-cases. people should look at
  the agenda and add anything that one thinks is missing.

  <Loqi> harry meant to say: There's been lots of Semantic Web
  "ontologies" in this space, all with very little uptake but we
  understand that can change.

  <bblfish> oops the spec is here https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp.html

  <bblfish> bye

  <oshepherd> bye

  <elf-pavlik> ciao o/

  <tibor_katelbach> bye

  <Arnaud> trackbot, end meeting

  <harry> trackbot, end meeting

Topics

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Summary of Action Items

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